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what size and type of plumbing?


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  1. #1
    buk - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    Default what size and type of plumbing?

    well, i'm just about to close on my first house and i'm planning on setting my 120 up on the first floor with a 180 sump/fuge in the basement. i've got a reeflo tarpon i'm planning on using but i'm a bit stuck on what size/type of plumbing to use. i'd really rather not have to do this more than once since the plumbing cost and time involved are a little more than your average tank with sump in stand.

    i'm thinking about using 1 1/4" reinforced vynl tubing from the tarpon, across the basement, and up to the tank. i figured this will get me right around 12' of head pressure. i'm thinking vynl tubing because i can bend it instead of using 45s and 90s that would give me more head pressure and are more prone to leaking. would another flexible tubing be better? if so what type? is the 1 1/4" enough or would i need to go larger? thanks.

  2. #2
    dsmith3512 - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    I would upsize the pipe tp 1.5" and use sch40 pvc. The size upgrade will overcome fitting loss. It is easy to work with, will hang nice on horizontal runs and a lot lower cost. the 1.25 vinyl is about 2.50 per ft and sch40 is .30 a ft. Dont use the sewer drain fittings, use the pressure fittng with the deeper sockets. Get clear primer and cement for a cleaner looking install.

    I have a 180g piped to my 50 an100g rubbermade sumps in my basement fish room, all with 1.5" pvc for drain and return. My return pump is a refflo barracuda. My horizontal run to the fish room is about 30'. My calculated head pressure loss with pipe and fittings is about 12'. This setup works good. The gate valve on the return is about a third closed, to reduce flow to balance the drains from two overflows.

  3. #3
    binford4000 - Reefkeeper
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    Default

    I agree that sch 40 PVC would be more cost effective.. Running 1 1/4 for the return would be allot of water for that small of a tank. If it was me I would reduce it to 1 in or 3/4 thru the floor to the tank.the reef flow pumps really move the water ! I would recommend adding a bypass back to the fuge also so you can adjust the output also Putting a valve on the return will do the same thing but adding the bypass will release excess back pressure and help your pump run it true expected service life and allow it to run cooler also. I would run 1 1/2 in drains and add a gate valve in the basement or under the stand so you can adjust that also. I would also recommend you add a WYE gravity check valve so you can reduce the amount you drain your tank during power outages and maintenance. Good luck and plan it out and then replan it tell you feel you really have a good plan ! Then check out as many systems you can and the revisit your plan. There's lots of ways to plumb a tank so take your time and think it out! If you want to look at what I did your welcome to come see it. Good luck and congrats.

  4. #4
    AZDesertRat - Reefkeeper
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    Default

    Increasing the return size cuts down on headloss due to friction and fittings. I would not install a bypass as this is not efficient, it actually makes the pump work harder. It has to do with two electrical and hydraulic principles, Bernoulis Theory and The Laws of Affinity. Basically a centrifugal pump only draws the power required to do the work required of it, plus a little for electrical inefficiencies ie heat. By returning flow to the sump you are increasing the pumping rate, even though you only need x gallons at the display, thus increasing the work, power consumption and heat generation.
    The preferred method is to install a ball or gate valve in the return line to the display and throttle the flow down if needed by adding backpressure or additional head. By adding head you reduce the flow, reduce the power consumption and reduce the heat generation and usually extend the life of the pump not the opposite.

    This can be easily demonstrated with a ball valve and a Kill A Watt meter. I tested about 10 different pumps a few years ago and it works every time.

    I would never ever install a ball valve in the overflow with the intent to throttle the flow, this can be a disaster when something lodges on the lip of the partially closed valve and reduces flow. Fully open or fully closed for maintenance, never throttled. By the same token, a check valve is a false sense of security and usually fails at the worst possible moment. Always keep sufficient room in your sump to contain the water in the vertical pipes and keep the returnsclose to the surface so they are open to atmosphere with just minimal backsiphonage, that is the best form of backflow prevention known to man. Water cannot jump uphill so once the return is exposed the siphon breaks guaranteed, no maintenance and no failures.

  5. #5
    binford4000 - Reefkeeper
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    Default

    Nope ! Not even going to respond to the answer. Just not worth it.look it's your build and befor drilling holes in your new homes floor go visit some local fellow reefers and take pictures and notes of what they did and come up with a plan and go with it !the pump you've choosen is a good one and will do anything you want. Your welcome to my system and I can try to get you a visit with some others who live near by and have basement fuges also.
    Last edited by binford4000; 10-01-2012 at 02:15 PM.

  6. #6
    dsmith3512 - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    I will, I checked with reeflo before I plumbed the tank, backpressure on the outlet reduces flow and power consumption with no damage to the pump. My barracuda has been running for five years. Drains should run open, or your asking for a flood. My drain flow is divided between the fuge and the sump, one has to be full open. Put a ball valve and a union by the check valve obove the pump. Use threaded fittings, so you can take them apart, check valves will leak, and my need cleaning.

  7. #7
    AZDesertRat - Reefkeeper
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    Hmmmm, pretty much what I said with the exception I would never use a check valve, seen too many fail in my 37+ years in the water/wastewater industry. We avoid them like the plague in less than pristine water situations.

  8. #8
    dsmith3512 - Reefkeeper CR Member
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    True the check valve will leak, but it will slow down back flow from returns and give you time in a power failure to turn off the ball valve.
    As for hole in the floor, cut it the same size as a floor heat register. You cover it with one if you take down the tank,
    Likes Sir Patrick liked this post

  9. #9
    AZDesertRat - Reefkeeper
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    Default

    Slowing down the backflow doesn't do any good when you are not home, which according to Murphy's Law will be the case! even a slow leak causues a flood in time.

    An air gap in the return is the ONLY foolproof method of backflow prevention. Maintain sufficient freeboard in the sump and an air gap and you can sleep soundly at night.

    You also need to remember that check valve adds additional headloss which means reduced flow or a larger pump to overcome it. They just are not a good idea. Check valves are often used to cover for an oversight or poor design, do it right in the beginning and it is not needed.

  10. #10
    Sir Patrick - Reefkeeper A2 Club Coordinator
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith3512 View Post
    . As for hole in the floor, cut it the same size as a floor heat register. You cover it with one if you take down the tank,
    Awesome idea!!!! Wish I had thought of that a few years ago!!

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