Keeping Mandarins?

Great thoughts Chort! Most of which I too have taken into consideration. I've spoken with Alex from ORA and am expecting a call from him on Monday. He wishes to explain their breading process because of my last email sent to him. I even suggested to him that I may be better off with a wc one. Also why they didn't raise them in a more natural environment as opposed to the, and I'm quoting here "very barren environment".
I've decided with the help of TFG to slowly acclimate my new Mandarin to her new diggs by way of a small in tank breeder box. (pics soon) I feel this way for the first couple days or weeks I'll better be able to keep an eye on her. Making sure she's eating. I'll be target feeding her exactly what ORA raises them on. Which is New Life Spectrum pellets and Nutramar Ova. The box itself will also allow pods easy access. Here too I'll be able to watch.
I'm ready to do whatever is necessary for this fish. I know what most people think. You know how many people have dogged me for even attempting one in my tank?!!They put the Tang Police to shame!!! But I've seen it done! In a tank smaller then mine! A healthy chubby Mandarin in a 20g tall? Yup and she's 2 years old :)

On another note. My biggest concern is not feeding her but keeping her safe from the other tank members like the Maxi Mini's! Like my goby/shrimp! The goby has had the entire bottom to himself and he doesn't take kindly to any intrusions. I'm worried about the Mandarin not knowing any better to stay away. Having never encountered these dangers before.

I'm not feeling all your logic, Chris. Seems to me that if the fish were on the verge of starvation the entire time, they wouldn't grow and would ultimately die before reaching a marketable size. I haven't seen any of the ORAs in the shops that looked like they were still "fry".

I do agree though that even being captive bred that they are more suited to a larger system. It's possible that like other fish, they require numerous feedings and that can be tough to keep nutrients under control in a small system...due to limited denitrification (not much area for anaerobic zones to form) and nutrient export (like a good skimmer).

Let me start by saying I'm sorry to hear the outcome of your first Mandarin attempt and offer my condolences.

I do agree with Chort's statement regarding preferring wild caught to captive bred fish.(probably because I'm cheap and don't see the sense in paying extra for captive bred) I have had quite a few mandarins and to my knowledge none were Captive Bred. Although the mature tank only recommendation is not accurate.(I've kept mandarin from 3 months into my saltwater adventure without a fatality) I sold them for various reasons. However, our current Red Mandarin "Pudge" is appropriately named and a pleasure to watch.

In your earlier post you stated you have a hang on back fuge. How is it set up? I have a self contained CPR AF2SM(outlet is plumbed to inlet),that I quarantine my Mandarin in, and another on my 29G Hex, both are set up with 1 1/2" of live sand, reef rubble pile with a protected inner area made up of egg crate(2"Wx3"Lx2"H) stuffed with a dollar store pot scrubber covered with rubble and a "tennis ball size" ball of Chaeto(stocked with a bottle of cultured pods) floating around that I swap out,whenever I remember, for the Chaeto in my 6.5G sump with ATS.

When I receive them I place the mandarin in the self contained quarantine fuge. When feeding Displays I feed "mandarin quarantine" a small eyedropper from an old selcon bottle filled with Nutramar Ova, Cyclopeeze and Arctipods. After a month or so most will eat prepared foods along with pods and then I release them into Hex display.

So stick with it and don't let the naysayers tell you it cant be done.(It's not as difficult/impossible as some would have you think)

I didn't realize there was a global council on Mandarin care;:roll: nor did I recommend putting one in a new tank; I merely stated my experience with my tank and the fact that I kept a mandarin against "globally mandated" convention with success.

I guess I should have told her it couldn't be done

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Originally Posted by chort55

The mature tank recommendation isn't my own, it is basically the global recommendation on mandarins lol. Your probably the only one that would recommend putting one in a new tank... not that it couldn't be done, but it isn't recommended.

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I dont see the advantage to Captive Bred either; but either way I'd recommend a protected rubble pile with a tight woven mat in the center to allow pods to propagate because CB's are still going to eat alot of pods. As far as the Fuge setup, I dont see why it would have an advantage either way(CB or wild).

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Originally Posted by chort55

That's not really any issue tho, Miz's tank is fairly mature and she is getting a CB one so that isn't as big of a deal because most of the CB's don't take pods like they should from my understanding (which is why so many don't make it and many still starve to death... this isn't a fish you can feed once daily and expect sucess).
That is a good idea (especially for wilds) with the fuge setup, and could definitely make it easier to keep one earlier in the hobby, but alot of people aren't going to do something like that or even know that you can buy pods to replenish your system which is why myself and many others still suggest a mature system is required.... its better for the fish and the fish keeper who is going to get upset when their cool little fish starts getting skinny and dies eventho it is eating ;)

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I dont understand why some "knowledgable" hobbyists would perpetuate an archaic falsehood instead of suggesting said hobbyist educate themselves on the species they intend to keep and adapt their system accordingly in an attempt to make another fellow reefer successful. My "quarantine fuge" was extremely simple to setup and the fact she already has a hang on fuge makes it all the easier; although, I would never recommend contaminating any system by adding unknown livestock without proper quarantine.


But thats just my 2 cents, handle it however you desire.;)

Here's what I've come up with, with the help of a very supportive, encouraging, positive thinking reefer. Box built by Becky :highfive3: In tank acclimation of sorts. I will acclimate to my water via drip method first. Then transfer *Dilly* into the Becky Box :big_grin: This method will not only be for Dilly's safety but mostly so that I can maintain constant visual contact with her. Especially during feedings. Which I will be doing several times a day. Foods I plan on feeding are..New Life International Spectrum Thera A .05 Mm Small Sinking pellets, Nutramar Ova, Argent Cyclop-eeze Wafer, Frozen baby brine shrimp and frozen blood worms chopped. The box as you can see will also allow copods easy access. Which I'm sure will be attracted to the Cyclop-eeze wafers :)

The box will arrive a week before Dilly. Giving me ample time to set it up for easy access. To add food and remove any uneaten portions. I'll be adding some substrate from my fuge to the box also. Hopefully within a couple of weeks I'll know either way. But I will not release her until I see her eating, something! She'll also be visually familiar with the tank inhabitants. And just to be on the safe side...I'm removing the Maxi Mini's.

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Originally Posted by MizTanks

Here's what I've come up with, with the help of a very supportive, encouraging, positive thinking reefer. Box built by Becky :highfive3: In tank acclimation of sorts. I will acclimate to my water via drip method first. Then transfer *Dilly* into the Becky Box :big_grin: This method will not only be for Dilly's safety but mostly so that I can maintain constant visual contact with her. Especially during feedings. Which I will be doing several times a day. Foods I plan on feeding are..New Life International Spectrum Thera A .05 Mm Small Sinking pellets, Nutramar Ova, Argent Cyclop-eeze Wafer, Frozen baby brine shrimp and frozen blood worms chopped. The box as you can see will also allow copods easy access. Which I'm sure will be attracted to the Cyclop-eeze wafers :)

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Glad I could help Miz! I hope your next attempt is much more successful. How are you removing the maxi-minis? :flamethrower:

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Originally Posted by chort55

Thats a pretty cool little idea Becky! I like that it stays in one place and allows the others to come to the box for inspection and doesn't float around the tank like some I've seen!

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Thanks! All I needed was a drill, a specimen container, zip ties, and mesh for the top. I used plastic "gutter guard" for the mesh top. It is attached with zip ties on the side away from the tank wall which allows it to be flipped up, but it won't float away (or sink). To close it, it could be secured with zip ties, however I would recommend rubber bands wrapped around from top to bottom, or as I've done, rubber band latches on the tank wall side so that it doesn't scratch the glass.

The idea was to keep it simple and not spend $50-60 on something that is used only a few times a year.. This design allows Miz to put it where she wants in her tank. I think it would be fun to park it in front of the goby for a few minutes...but the goby may consider that pure torture. LOL :sling_shot:

Oh oh I'm feeling the love here people's!! Thank you all so much! :)

Becky, I've no idea how I'm gonna get the damn things outta my tank. Stupidest newbie mistake ever!! Pretty though they are and up until now never an issue.
I'm thinking of a pair of scissors, cutting them off as close to the rock as I can get....

Jamie,

Meet George...

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...414_151416.jpg

For what it's worth, George has resided in my DT with what is probably a dozen Maxi Minis for almost 3 years without incident. I don't know if he simply avoids them, or if his heavy slime coat affords some level of protection.

I'd focus more on making sure there are "copious" copepods and not worry about the Maxi Minis.

OMG Hi George!!! Oh CSQ he's awesome!!! :love3:

Holy Dragonet! That George is really hamming it up for the camera!