Crickets in the Zoanthid Forum

[John]

Thank you, but it wasn't this site.

So far everyone here has been pretty decent if not awesome. There have been minor issues but nothing major. It just makes you "gun shy".

Everyones opinion is valuable, what is important to remember is that because something works for someone else that doesn't mean it will work for you. That is why the more people responding the better, it gives you a cross section of different ideas and protocols for your tank. If you have been berated for your opinions on this site let me be the first to apologize. It is not the mission at CR for anyone to have to sit in silence for fear of being flamed about an opinion. While discussions at times can turn to disagreements it will be done in a respectful manner or it will be dealt with by staff..... Sorry all, a little off topic...back to the zoa/palys

[Wy Renegade]

I see what you mean about the "new" zoas and such. Take for instance a Nightmare. While browsing Zoaid.com I notice that there are about 3 of the same zoos with different names... Same thing with Organisms... they can also be called Deadpools... When I first got the "Deadpools" (I'll stick with that name since I like X-men) I bought them from Reef Paradise, I didn't know what they were, but I liked them.

I'm not sure how I can possibly contribute to the talks about any coral. I'm no expert with them, I don't have any scientific data to back up what I say. Not to mention, since I only have about 100ish posts many people on this site wouldn't care what I had to say or offer about anything anyways. It seems no matter what when a person wants to add their input anywhere there are 4 others waiting to tear them and their post apart. But, you don't see them posting anything insightful. This is what I notice amonst many of the forums I'm on. Perhaps that is why you don't see any new topics popping up.

First off, let me just say that anyone who attributes someone's knowledge level to post count really doesn't know much about internet forums. I'm on several forums where the people with the highest post counts have little to no knowledge about anything reef related, they simply ran around posting things like "pretty", "nice", or "sad" in peoples threads till they ended up with 20,000+ posts. It doesn't mean they know anything.

Secondly, why does everything have to be about scientific data? Don't get me wrong, I'm trained as a scientist and I love to have actual data, but much of what is know/discussed/learned today in this hobby is not based on scientific data - its based on the first hand experience of hobbiests.

Mucho, I think that that right there is part of the problem, people don't think they have anything to contribute or they are afraid to contribute, so a thread that is started simply dies without any additional posts. Further, I think there is something of a feeling that everyone else should have or does have all the answers already, so why bother to try and talk about it.

[2pairs]

Good thread Mucho Reef,
This is the kind of thing we need more of. The sharing of lessons learned and battles fought is what brought all of us to the forums.
This could be a good thread to integrate with the new grow out contest, maybe we could get every one in the contest to post in here sharing some of the things they are doing and how it works or not.
When it comes down to it almost all of the reef tanks out their have z's and p's in them and that makes this a topic we can all be involved in. I do like data but simple observation some times is more helpful.
Well I will be tagging along on this, and looking forward to learning more.

[Sir Patrick]

I am hoping the "Growout Contest" will liven this forum up!!!-


CR Grow Out Contest - Awesome Frags - Win an Inland Reef Saw



http://www.captivereefs.com/forum/fo...play.php?f=150



This should start a stir in the zoanthid forum here pretty soon, I would imagine! So many different types and varietys from so many different places- many with opposite needs, placements, ect. I am sure many will see differences, and we will see many bumps on this one! Let the questions/discussions proceed!!

[MUCHO REEF]

Bingo !!!! Conversation. Good or bad, I'm all for it.

John - "it comes down to $$ with more and more people", not sure what you mean by this, don't want to jump to any conclusions, so could you expound upon this? Thanks.

"Not only do the cool new names and price tags on these corals have hype, but whoever has them gains reputation points as well".

I agree with you 2,000 %. I won't go into it as many already know where I stand on this topic. But I will say this, names have absolutely nothing, I mean nothing to do with keeping zoas and palys. It has everything to do with hype, false hype, selling, reselling and profit margins. In fact, I know more reefers who spend their days, hours and weeks on another sight researching, studying, comparing and learning every name they can, yet they don't know cyano from a cinnamon roll or that it is but one of the reasons their polyps are dying. No offense to anyone, but personally, when I see a thread or subject line with a zoa name in it, I won't bother to even look at it. The same with ID threads, they simply do not interest me as they are usually hype related, an arguement waiting to happen as the focus becomes the name as the issue usually has nothing to do with the name at all. Whenever I ask the price of a zoa/paly frag or colony nowadays, the first reply is usually the name of it, but I never ask for the name. The second reply is what it cost on line or is being sold for by "Billy Bob's Ultra Rare Zoanthid Emporium in Nova Soctia". Then, 3 minutes later, I get the price. I just wish we can get back to reefing and away from wanting a "REP".


""I'm not sure how I can possibly contribute to the talks about any coral. I'm no expert with them; I don't have any scientific data to back up what I say. Not to mention, since I only have about 100ish posts many people on this site wouldn't care what I had to say or offer about anything anyways. It seems no matter what when a person wants to add their input anywhere there are 4 others waiting to tear them and their post apart. But, you don't see them posting anything insightful. This is what I notice on many of the forums I'm on. Perhaps that is why you don't see any new topics popping up. ""


With all due respect my friend, I disagree with you. You don't have to be an expert. I'm not an expert and I don't know any zoa experts. I do however know a lot of very knowledgeable reefers who are, have and can keep them alive. Believe me, if you have a reef tank, you have far more to share then you can imagine. It is common place to believe now that if we aren't talking about hype, names, pricing, profits and ID.s, that there is nothing to talk about. "Well Mucho, since you are complaining, why don't you start us off". Been there, done that many times on many different sites. Back in the day we didn't have to pump and prime reefers to speak up, share and get involved. I have ask and begged people to get involved; I'm not doing that anymore. It takes a village, therefore, the village, and not just one person, is required to make this forum or any forum a success.

Sir, I don't have any scientific data other than that of my own. If there are those out there who live in fear of posting because of recent attacks. Shame on the attackers. I agree, we can agree to disagree, but the flaming, if there is any, can be quickly doused with a report to the staff and mods. Mods, I hope someone is reading this and will zero in on this issue should it arise in the future.

[MUCHO REEF]

There are tons of topics that are zoa/paly related, but if no one is willing to come here daily and contribute and share something other than, names, look at what I got, hype, false hype and macro 1 to 4 polyp macro pictures, nothing is going to change. Back in the day on another sight, dozens, I mean dozens of reefers would come home and long on even before dinner and get involve. Many would come home from lunch or log on at work. We'd have discussions with hundreds if not thousands of post on just one topic. Yep, it takes a village.

MizTank - "Man oh man do I know what you’re talking about. I'm with you 100%
Personally I don't care what they're named. What I do care about is why in the heck can't I keep them alive?
Other supposedly hard to care for corals are no problem for me. But as for zoas, put them in my tank and within 2nweeks they begin to disappear. Poof en gone!
No where can I find answers as to what I may be doing wrong. No where can I find info on caring for them. For something sooo popular to have sooo little info on them, well it's just a dang shame.
If there's anything I can do to get this going-let's GIT ER DONE!!"

I feel your pain, but your sentiments are a self fulfilling prophecy. As long as you feel that you can't keep them alive, you won't. Trust me, I believe you can be successful at keeping them. I have seen so many issues being resolved by simply starting over and going slow. Rome was not built in a day; failure to keep them alive could be something as simple as bad test kits. I'm dead serious. It could be something as minute as your water quality. There are endless reasons, but all are fixable. I challenge you to contact everyone you know who keeps zoas and palys and/or sells them on this or any other forum and ask them to log on and get involved and share.

As far as answers, there is a ton of valuable info on this sight and the web. You have to go and get it, it's there, trust me.


Rabidgoose - you hit the nail on the head my friend. I agree with you 100 %. Everyone's opinion is valuable.

Wy Renegade -man I agree with you big time on that first paragraph. On your last paragraph, if anyone, or everyone feels they know it all or have all the answers, they are in for a rude awakening. There are no zoa experts. Some may know more than others by virtue of the experience in the hobby. Experience in this hobby means an awful in reefing. It helps you to weigh the knowledge of others and their post and discern what is viable or not.

Would love some feedback from others. Thank you to those who did reply.

Mucho Reef

[Wy Renegade]

With all due respect my friend, I disagree with you. You don't have to be an expert. I'm not expert and I don't know any zoa experts. I do however know a lot of very knowledgeable reefers who are, have and can keep them alive. Believe me, if you have a reef tank, you have far more to share than you can imagine. It is common place to believe now that if we aren't talking about hype, names, pricing, profits and ID.s, that there is nothing to talk about. "Well Mucho, since you are complaining, why don't you start us off". Been there, done that many times on many different sights. Back in the day we didn't have to pump and prime reefers to speak up, share and get involved. I have ask and begged people to get involved; I'm not doing that anymore. It takes a village, therefore, the village, and not just one person, is required to make this forum or any forum a success.

Indeed MUCHO, I agree. So the question becomes where is the village? What kinds of questions does it take to stir the interest of the village? What kinds of questions does it take to stir your interest MUCHO? I would love to see discussion on flow rates for zoas, best placements for different polyps, best additives to use with zoas or anything else related to keeping and being successful with them, and yet most threads die out within two or three posts - so how do we keep them going?

It isn't just this site, its all of them right now - RC, R2R, SWF, NR, RR, AA, etc. I haven't seen a good discussion thread in ages (in the zoa section) - everything is about my collection or my new polyp etc.

[2pairs]

Well it looks like their a few that might be willing to talk zoa, so how about someone starting it off at the beginning.
Kind of a zoa 101
Like water parameters so even a beginner can follow along and have some success.
Lighting
Placement
Flow
Food (and or additives)
What inverts play well with zoa's
What pests to watch out for

I know it might sound like this is something everyone should know but it could be a good start to a ongoing discussion about one of our favorite corals. THE ZOA
So if their is someone out their willing to start it who knows ware it might go.

[Wy Renegade]

Well it looks like their a few that might be willing to talk zoa, so how about someone starting it off at the beginning.
Kind of a zoa 101
Like water parameters so even a beginner can follow along and have some success.
Lighting
Placement
Flow
Food (and or additives)
What inverts play well with zoa's
What pests to watch out for

I know it might sound like this is something everyone should know but it could be a good start to a ongoing discussion about one of our favorite corals. THE ZOA
So if their is someone out their willing to start it who knows ware it might go.

We've started a discussion on placement in this thread;

Best Placement for Zoanthids

The issue with placement, lighting and flow IME, is that there isn't any one placement that works for all of them - some like high light while others prefer low light. Some need high flow, others moderate or low flow.

[Invert]

The issue with placement, lighting and flow IME, is that there isn't any one placement that works for all of them - like high light while others prefer low light. Some need high flow, others moderate or low flow.

I believe there are also a few other factors that may have a roll in keeping Zoas.

Are they "Wild" Collected Polyps, That have not adjusted to Life In Captivity ( Lighting / Water Chemistry ) ?
Which also includes " Pest " Removal.

Some like high light while others prefer low light

Lets not forget to mention, Type of Lighting.
Low Light: Depending on Wattage of each bulb or number of bulbs per fixture.
Low Light under a Metal Halide Fixture could be equal to Med - High light under T-5 lighting.
Another factor with lighting is Height of Tank.
One person may state " I keep mine on the bottom with a 250w MH " but fail to mention that the tank is only 16" tall.
Another may say " I have mine placed Mid-Tank under a 400w MH " and fails to mention that the tank height of 30".
Then there is Bulb Color Temp. AKA Kelvin: 6,700 through 20,000

It would be great if everyone could own there own PAR Meter and give PAR readings with there Bulb Color Temp.
Then we could stop using " Low Light " & " High Light " terms and just use PAR readings.

Then there is the Lighting for " Best Growth " or " Best Color "

Then the Famous Question:
What lighting are you using ? I can not get the Color that is in the " For Sale Picture "
With a $2000 Camera / Macro Lens Combo & Photo Shopped Pictured, It does not matter what Lighing you try to use. Your Polyps will never look like there picture.

Just My 4 Cents.