Originally Posted by
MUCHO REEF
No offense taken, we are merely discussing.
It seems whenever I make this type of post, someone reads between the lines, instead of just reading the lines. Not getting smart here at all, but I will try to clarify my point again as I think it wasn't clear. Many reefers buy what they like, this is what we have done for 20 years. No one ever needed or ask for a name. If names DID NOT COINCIDE with sky high pricing and excessive fragging, NO ONE, not even I would have a problem. This is my 1st point.
Secondly, When I speak of names, I should have stated that I was speaking solely of zoas and palys. The reasons we never used names, is because we collected for size, coloration and aesthetics, not for potential resale value and mark up. Prior to 2006, before sky high pricing, there was no need for names. WHY ? They all had an equal inexpensive value. You could buy a baseball size rock of anything except maybe crazy blues, covered with polyps, and pay no more than $ 50 at the most $ 60 for a larger rock covered with polyps. Again, this is why we didn't need names. Now, someone decided to make false claims that everything with color was rare, I was here and I and many others saw this. Then they started calling them Limited Editions and gave them names. At the exact same time, PRICES went through the roof. Then someone started chopping up rocks and saying they were doing to "preserve the hobby through aquaculture". But the problem was this, there was a surplus of large polyp rocks EVERYWHERE. This was during a time when nobody even liked or wanted zoas or palys because they grew so fast. When rpices went through the roof, sps tanks came down, and zoa tanks went up. Polyps were not going extinct, yet the claims that we are doing this to spread the wealth became one of the main excuses to chop up every rock larger than 2 inches and sell them for outrageous prices. There is nothing wrong with fragging, the problem I have is with excessive, repetitive, premature and improper fragging. Thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in perfectly healthy zoas and palys have perished in the name of " just spreading the wealth via aquaculturing". My first concern is for the coral and the hobby, not the profits derived from the sales of frags. With these names and prices, every time a new polyp grows on a mother colony, it is whacked off, glued to a plug, photographed and offered up for sale. This is why we have dozens of stories asking, "why did they die". Frag responsibly and when appropriete is all I'm saying.
If you recall, you purchased 2 frags from me a very long time ago. They weren't on frag plugs, they were on 2 inch rocks. Selling frags is a net postitive for the hobby I agree, as long as they are attached properly and timely. It doesn't mean that frags not attached to frag plug or unfragged at all are not good as well for the hobby. I have watched for years now and listened to absolute horrible stories of poylps that were prematurely fragged and shipped for the sack of money, only to have those frags die within days of arrival. I have read, seen and answered questions of "why did all my frags die for the 3rd time". Why would someone continually buy frags not knowing how to even keep them alive. Is this a net positive for the hobby? You referred to my opinions as " The Mucho Approach". I think that was a small slap, but it's ok. It's not my approach at all. Dozens upon dozens of reefers I know personally feel the exact same way. Some feel so strongly about this issue, they have left all the forums, reefing or any public activity at all. Why? They are more concerned about the corals mortality then we are about the potential profits from said corals. Your argument on reefer A and B is great if there were no more or very very few corals on the market, then yes, lets frag when ready, but that is not the case. This is why you have new on line stores popping up everyday selling 1 to 3 polyps all derived from one single mother colony which are in excess. This is why you only see pictures in all the candy threads of tiny macro shot fargs. Where are all the large colony pictures?
It simply amazes me all the reasons that are being giving in defense of keeping these prices how. I hear that many people are shaking in their boots hoping these prices never drop back down to what they have been for 20 years prior to naming. Does anyone care about the corals? Aquaculture can be achieved by simply allowing your corals to grow. Again, fragging is fine, but only when done properly, timely, safely, correctly and not for sky high profits......expecially if one is so concerned about spreading the wealth and preserving the corals.
I see that you manufacture a product relative to this topic. My friend, my replies are not an afront to you or anyone else personally. These sky high prices have run a ton of newbies away from this hobby, and many many experienced reefers with tons of experience and kowledge away from these boards. The very knowledge that you, me and many others might need to help keeping something we love and treasure alive.
Just surprised that every time someone speaks up, out and against these issues, they are labeled as an attacker. I'm stating my opinion against something that someone else might be for, that's all.
At least we are talking, and that's good.
Mucho Reef