In tank sump

[kryppy]

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:25:27 -0500, "Thomas Bartkus"
<thomasbartkus@comcast.net> wrote:

"graphixx22" <graphixx22@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:dijkbg$8fr$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
If you ask me it will take away from the look of the tank.

I am building a custom stand w enclosure. The sump section will be hidden
in the furniture. Not much different, really, than putting it underneath.

an under
the stand sump is actually quite a simple design check out this site
www.melevsreef.com he has some really good designs.

Yes. That's very nice.
I have always used a sump arangement like that in the past.
I've always gone to the expense of having the tank drilled and the trouble
of the pvc plumbing. What makes me uncomfortable is passing seawater
through the external pipes in my living room. In the past, these tanks were
located in a place where the occasional drip/leak/spill were no big deal.

Tile the living room.

[Wayne Sallee]

Yea that's a good idea, to make it easily removeable, so
that you can easily remove it if you don't like it. Only
problem is that if it is not glued in good, it could float
up. If it is glued in good, it won't be as easily removed,
and you will have residule silicone on the front glass.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

Reptoreef wrote:

All, very good points... I say, try it!!! Maybe a retrofit-type
acrylic sump to sit in the end you're considering as the sump that
can be removed and easiely made into usable reef area. With a 72"x24"
footprint(180 or 210), cutting off a foot or 2 will give ample space
for a reef/fuge, but will definitely use up some great reef space.
It's your dream... live it!!!
----------------------------------------
Usenet Gateway provided by http://www.CaptiveReefing.com

[Thomas Bartkus]

"dakar" <admin@captivereefing-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:dik0ip$qt7$1@domitilla.aioe.org...

I've seen a 180 setup where they basically carved out a 12"x6" right
angle out of each back corner with Acrilyc to run as a sump, refuge
and whatever equipment.

Acrylic is great to install install (instead of glass) inside a glass tank.
You can cut and drill to your hearts content and you can silicone glue your
structures to the glass. When you want to remove/uninstall something - a
razorblade separates removes the silicone glue from plate glass - neat and
clean!

It looked nice and clean as everything was hidden, but a large waste of
precious real estate.

I have to say - I'm not getting all this "waste of precious real estate"
stuff!
It seems to me that if you go the sump route, you have already accepted
this.
- You hide it underneath the display tank inside the cabinetry
- You hide it beside the tank display inside cabinetry

Either way you are investing tank space and water volume to the sump at the
expense of display real estate. You have to get past this if you want a
sump!

Either you want a sump, or you don't!
Thomas Bartkus

[Thomas Bartkus]

"Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
news:Oah3f.12920$vw6.5623@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...

I would recomed keeping the sump as small as you can,
basicly just use it for the protine skimmer, and a space
where you can add a bag of carbon if needed.

Yup. As small as is reasonable. One reason for keeping a sump, though, is
to hide all the artificial hardware (pumps, skimmers, pipes, heaters,
filters) and leave the display clean and natural. IOW - it's got to hold
all the hardware.

Don't use it as filter space, put a good pump in there to move a lot of
water, and let your live rock, and live sand do all of the
filtering.

I consider the skimmer "filter space". A *worthy* skimmer actually does a
good job of mechanical filtration. I believe it will also keep water
coloration under control. I have yet to use carbon. I hope the water
clarity to be such that I won't want to.

But then another problem is that with a smaller
sump, is that bubles created from the overflow will have
less time to exit the water before entering back into the
aquarium.

Tis a problem with any sump/skimmer design. The nice thing about a sump is
that you are "hiding" stuff and can devote some baffling for bubble release.
Again - the sump needs to be big enough for whatever hardware you are
imposing on the system.

Otherwise - what's the point?
Thomas Bartkus

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

Wayne Sallee wrote:
If that's where you want it, then go for it, but also consider that 2 40
gallon tanks are cheaper than 1 80 gallon tank. ie that realistate will
cost you more per gallon than a tank on the bottom.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

Thomas Bartkus wrote:

"TekCat" <tek_catNOBS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dijmdv$c4e$1@domitilla.aioe.org...

IMO To accomplish what you described, wont it be better to use
closed-loop
for circulation and a hang on skimmer? this way you 're not going to
lose
1' of precious real-estate.


The sump uses up real estate (water volume) no matter where you put it.
The reason I want a sump in the first place is because I hate "hang on"
anythings.

Thomas Bartkus

[davejnz]

I have to say - I'm not getting all this "waste of precious real estate"
stuff!

We're just reffering to the waste of space in the display tank.As for acrylic,silicon doesn't bond well to plastics.Its best to use a glue designed for acrylic.After it has cured,run a bead of silicon over that.
If you plan on getting a 5' tank that has a large footprint (60" x 24"),it would give you alot more room for the in-tank-sump(12" x 24").With proper baffle design,a functional skimmer section/return section could be made.One advantage to this deign is a small return pump could be used as head pressure would be only 1'.Just remember,you dont want a high volume of water flowing through your sump.Current/water flow should be in the display,not the sump.A closed loop is the best way to achieve this and its inputs/outputs can easily be drilled if you use acrylic for your partition.

[Wayne Sallee]

Yea I was not meaning to skip the skimmer.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
Wayne@WaynesPets.com


Thomas Bartkus wrote:

"Wayne Sallee" <Wayne@WayneSallee.com> wrote in message
news:Oah3f.12920$vw6.5623@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...

I would recomed keeping the sump as small as you can,
basicly just use it for the protine skimmer, and a space
where you can add a bag of carbon if needed.


Yup. As small as is reasonable. One reason for keeping a sump, though, is
to hide all the artificial hardware (pumps, skimmers, pipes, heaters,
filters) and leave the display clean and natural. IOW - it's got to hold
all the hardware.


Don't use it as filter space, put a good pump in there to move a lot of
water, and let your live rock, and live sand do all of the
filtering.


I consider the skimmer "filter space". A *worthy* skimmer actually does a
good job of mechanical filtration. I believe it will also keep water
coloration under control. I have yet to use carbon. I hope the water
clarity to be such that I won't want to.


But then another problem is that with a smaller
sump, is that bubles created from the overflow will have
less time to exit the water before entering back into the
aquarium.


Tis a problem with any sump/skimmer design. The nice thing about a sump is
that you are "hiding" stuff and can devote some baffling for bubble release.
Again - the sump needs to be big enough for whatever hardware you are
imposing on the system.

Otherwise - what's the point?
Thomas Bartkus


Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

Wayne Sallee wrote:

If that's where you want it, then go for it, but also consider that 2 40
gallon tanks are cheaper than 1 80 gallon tank. ie that realistate will
cost you more per gallon than a tank on the bottom.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

Thomas Bartkus wrote:


"TekCat" <tek_catNOBS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dijmdv$c4e$1@domitilla.aioe.org...


IMO To accomplish what you described, wont it be better to use
closed-loop
for circulation and a hang on skimmer? this way you 're not going to
lose
1' of precious real-estate.


The sump uses up real estate (water volume) no matter where you put it.
The reason I want a sump in the first place is because I hate "hang on"
anythings.

Thomas Bartkus

[Thomas Bartkus]

"davejnz" <davejnz@aol-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:dimad6$pf6$1@domitilla.aioe.org...

I have to say - I'm not getting all this "waste of precious real
estate"
stuff!


We're just reffering to the waste of space in the display tank.As
for acrylic,silicon doesn't bond well to plastics.Its best to use a
glue designed for acrylic.After it has cured,run a bead of silicon
over that.
If you plan on getting a 5' tank that has a large footprint (60" x
24"),it would give you alot more room for the in-tank-sump(12" x
24").With proper baffle design,a functional skimmer section/return
section could be made.One advantage to this deign is a small return
pump could be used as head pressure would be only 1'.

Just remember,you dont want a high volume of water flowing through
your
sump.Current/water flow should be in the display,not the sump.

How can you have a high water flow through the sump without an *identical*
flow blasting back to the display on the return line? If the sump flow is
high, the display flow is necessarily high also.

I never considered that one might want to restrict flow to the sump. One
could keep the sump flow low and install a few mini pumps to keep the
display side flow high. But - I sort of like the idea of hiding as much
hardware as possible in the sump.

Why *not* just keep the sump flow as high as possible and dispense with the
mini pumps in the display section?

A closed loop is the best way to achieve this and its inputs/outputs
can easily be drilled if you use acrylic for your partition.

Yes. Acrylic and pvc are the obvious ways to go for sump structures and
plumbing.
Thomas Bartkus

[davejnz]

A slow flow through the sump has many advantages.First,it allows a thinner layer
of water to be skimmed over the overflow.This layer of water needs to be directly fed into a dedicated skimmer chamber(you can use a small bucket even).This chamber should be just large enough for the skimmer to sit in.The skimmer will process wastes much more effectively this way.
The reason why is twofold.First,by having the skimmer in a small chamber,and with a slower flow rate,the skimmer is able to process the water/organics before they have time to migrate to the surface or flow right by(high current sumps).By placing the skimmer in a chamber/vessel/bucket,this will provide a constant water level which is imperative for a skimmer to work properly.The slower flow will also have less bubbles and turbulence that can hinder a skimmers performance.

[davejnz]

How can you have a high water flow through the sump without an *identical*
flow blasting back to the display on the return line?

With an in-tank-sump,you could incorporate a closed loop with the pump being housed in the sump partition.This pump will be directly plumbed into 2 or more bulkheads that you install in the partition.The water circulated through this "loop" is isolated from the sump/return because of how it is plumbed.