In tank sump

[Thomas Bartkus]

I am considering getting a standard (4' or 5' long) tank and devoting 1 foot
of it as a sump by creating a dam with a glass sheet I glue into one side.
The idea being the water will overflow off the surface into the sump
section.

I am toying with this idea because -
I can enclose (hide!) the sump section in the custom cabinet I am
building.
I won't need anything hanging on the outside of the tank.
I feel more secure (rugs!) not having a need to pump water outside the
tank.
Simpler, foolproof plumbing.
I'll get more mileage out of a sump pump that won't need to work against
any more than a few inches of head.
I can use a more efficent in sump skimmer design.

Has anyone done this? I've never seen a setup like that.
Any drawbacks I'm overlooking?
Pointers?

Comments, both positive and negative, appreciated.
Thomas Bartkus

[graphixx]

If you ask me it will take away from the look of the tank. an under the stand sump is actually quite a simple design check out this site www.melevsreef.com he has some really good designs.

[TekCat]

IMO To accomplish what you described, wont it be better to use closed-loop
for circulation and a hang on skimmer? this way you 're not going to lose
1' of precious real-estate.

"Thomas Bartkus" <thomasbartkus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:APadnZWaFfFu1dDeRVn-hw@telcove.net...

I am considering getting a standard (4' or 5' long) tank and devoting 1
foot
of it as a sump by creating a dam with a glass sheet I glue into one side.
The idea being the water will overflow off the surface into the sump
section.

I am toying with this idea because -
I can enclose (hide!) the sump section in the custom cabinet I am
building.
I won't need anything hanging on the outside of the tank.
I feel more secure (rugs!) not having a need to pump water outside the
tank.
Simpler, foolproof plumbing.
I'll get more mileage out of a sump pump that won't need to work against
any more than a few inches of head.
I can use a more efficent in sump skimmer design.

Has anyone done this? I've never seen a setup like that.
Any drawbacks I'm overlooking?
Pointers?

Comments, both positive and negative, appreciated.
Thomas Bartkus

[Thomas Bartkus]

"graphixx22" <graphixx22@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:dijkbg$8fr$1@domitilla.aioe.org...

If you ask me it will take away from the look of the tank.

I am building a custom stand w enclosure. The sump section will be hidden
in the furniture. Not much different, really, than putting it underneath.

an under
the stand sump is actually quite a simple design check out this site
www.melevsreef.com he has some really good designs.

Yes. That's very nice.
I have always used a sump arangement like that in the past.
I've always gone to the expense of having the tank drilled and the trouble
of the pvc plumbing. What makes me uncomfortable is passing seawater
through the external pipes in my living room. In the past, these tanks were
located in a place where the occasional drip/leak/spill were no big deal.

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[Thomas Bartkus]

"TekCat" <tek_catNOBS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dijmdv$c4e$1@domitilla.aioe.org...

IMO To accomplish what you described, wont it be better to use closed-loop
for circulation and a hang on skimmer? this way you 're not going to lose
1' of precious real-estate.

The sump uses up real estate (water volume) no matter where you put it.

The reason I want a sump in the first place is because I hate "hang on"
anythings.

Thomas Bartkus

[Wayne Sallee]

If that's where you want it, then go for it, but also
consider that 2 40 gallon tanks are cheaper than 1 80
gallon tank. ie that realistate will cost you more per
gallon than a tank on the bottom.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

Thomas Bartkus wrote:

"TekCat" <tek_catNOBS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dijmdv$c4e$1@domitilla.aioe.org...

IMO To accomplish what you described, wont it be better to use closed-loop
for circulation and a hang on skimmer? this way you 're not going to lose
1' of precious real-estate.


The sump uses up real estate (water volume) no matter where you put it.
The reason I want a sump in the first place is because I hate "hang on"
anythings.

Thomas Bartkus

[dakar]

I've seen a 180 setup where they basically carved out a 12"x6" right angle out of each back corner with Acrilyc to run as a sump, refuge and whatever equipment. It looked nice and clean as everything was hidden, but a large waste of precious real estate.

Definaely a doable option.

[Wayne Sallee]

I would recomed keeping the sump as small as you can,
basicly just use it for the protine skimmer, and a space
where you can add a bag of carbon if needed. Don't use it
as filter space, put a good pump in there to move a lot of
water, and let your live rock, and live sand do all of the
filtering. But then another problem is that with a smaller
sump, is that bubles created from the overflow will have
less time to exit the water before entering back into the
aquarium.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

Wayne Sallee wrote:

If that's where you want it, then go for it, but also consider that 2 40
gallon tanks are cheaper than 1 80 gallon tank. ie that realistate will
cost you more per gallon than a tank on the bottom.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

Thomas Bartkus wrote:

"TekCat" <tek_catNOBS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dijmdv$c4e$1@domitilla.aioe.org...

IMO To accomplish what you described, wont it be better to use
closed-loop
for circulation and a hang on skimmer? this way you 're not going to
lose
1' of precious real-estate.


The sump uses up real estate (water volume) no matter where you put it.
The reason I want a sump in the first place is because I hate "hang on"
anythings.

Thomas Bartkus

[davejnz]

I've seen it done before the way you describe and didn't care for it.Besides taking away from precious space from the display,the section partitioned isn't nowhere near big enough for proper function.A sump should have as much area/water volume as possible.The more water in the system,the more the system will be stable.With 12" of space,it will be very hard to make a proper skimmer section with a constant water level and a slow raw water feed.Then you'll still need room for a return pump and float valve/switch.You will also not be able to upgrade your sump to incorporate a fuge.I understand your fears of drilling/plumbing an under tank sump but when done properly,there's not much to worry about.If you need pics,check out my 40gal project log thread.Another concern you might have is drilling the bottom of the tank for an overflow,these types of overflows are no where near as efficient as a horizontal overflow along the back glass.They are drilled up high just inches under the water level.If anything were to ever happen,the tank would only drain a couple inches although i've never heard of anyones failing.They also provide much more linear inches of overflow -vs- the corner overflows(40"-48" compared to 12").This will allow a very thin layer of water to be skimmed from the surface which is much more efficient at getting these surface trapped organics to the skimmer as well as quieter than corner overflows.
The benefits of a long(at least 3',i use an old 30gal tank)sump far outweigh the convenience of a small in tank sump IME.With 3' of length,you will be able to partition it(glass can be cut to size at HD if you use a tank) easily to make a proper skimmer section with a constant water level and a raw water feed from the output of the overflow.You will be able to make a large fuge,design proper baffles to get rid of microbubbles.Float valves/switches are easily to corporate into the return pump section.As well as increase the total water volume of the system as much as you'd like

[Reptoreef]

All, very good points... I say, try it!!! Maybe a retrofit-type acrylic sump to sit in the end you're considering as the sump that can be removed and easiely made into usable reef area. With a 72"x24" footprint(180 or 210), cutting off a foot or 2 will give ample space for a reef/fuge, but will definitely use up some great reef space. It's your dream... live it!!!