Beneficial Bacteria

[MizTanks]

I'm curious as how this is accumulated in SW~aside from the LR/substrate.
I know with FW the main suppliers of the bacteria comes from the filtration and substrate~does my SW tank totally rely on the LR/Substrate for the bacteria? I guess I'm trying to figure out exactly what part my filtration system is playing in maintaining my water quality~since I'm only using a little carbon and chemipure elite.

[Sir Patrick]

Its late and worked a double tonight (you know what that means miz) but I am gonna take a stab at this to help ya out tonight, instead of tomorow. Never know- might have to correct my self later, and others feel free to help me explaine this.

As far as the nitrogen cycle, your live rock is your main source of beneficial bacteria. It lives on the surface of your live rock, just as it would live on bioballs, filter floss, ect. As your amonia increases, so does the bacteria that breaks it down into nitrites. As your nitrites rise, so does the bacteria that breaks it down. As you nitrate rises, with a good deep sand bed or good sized peice of live rock, the nitrate gets broken down into harmless gases (I think- anyone please correct me here) If you have neither of these or the proper equipment, nitrates are taken care of primarily by water changes.

Also must note- A deep sand bed or live rock can hold a certain amount of nutrients before it is full. that is when you will see problems, like algea, higher nitrates ect. than used to.

The bacterias that break down the nitrate are deep in the live rock or deep in the sand bed where light and oxygen are laking.

After typing all of this, I think I may be trying to answer the wrong questin....

Where do these bacterias come from???

In an empty tank with salt water, I have no clue....live sand and live (or wet base) rock, I would guess, have them absorbed inside them.

[MizTanks]

You did good Pat~So is it possible that my nutrients are too high? If so, how can I reduce them? How long will it take for the LR to stop leaching said nutrients? Or is it an on going process?
So my filtration system should be set up to help remove the excess nutrients~by george I think I'm getting this!!

Pat, I do think you done turned the bulb on in my brain~Kutos to you!

[tazzy695]

yes the filtration system is designed to remove excess nutrients this is one reason I keep asking if you are running any kind of macro algae to eat some of these excess nutrients and remove them from your system

[MizTanks]

Sorry Tazzy~never caught yer question~I have a small bunch of cheato in the tank~will that help?

[Sir Patrick]

Alright, where to start...gonna cover a couple bases for ya here.

Your situation, from what I beleive/understand-

You are practicing excelent tank husbandry, using carbon and po4 remover and changing regularly before its saturated, you have an ro filter on the way (right?), and you have algea growing off your rocks. This leads me to beleive that your rocks have maxed their capacity of nutrients. They were probly like this before you baught them. The rock will still do its nitrifying job, but with it so full, algea is able to tap into this source and use it.

The carbon, po4 remover, and ro water will make your water nutrient poor. Nutrient poor water will in turn cause the rock to leach out the built up nutrients. This doesnt happen fast, but with good tank husbandry, will eventualy clean out the excess nutrients that have built up in your rock. As the rock expells its nutrient build up, also known as "shedding" the algeas food source in the rock will disapear. The reason its called shedding is the rock actualy expells detrius, sand and other particles in the process.

After the shedding stops, you will have good healthy live rock. This good healthy live rock will give you a much better cushion than the nutrient full rock did during a nitrate, ammonia or po4 spike, as its more able to consume these products than a peice of full rock. Keep up on your tank husbandry, and the rock wil stay clean, start slaking or neglect things and your rock will start to build up nutrients again.

Even though your rock will be leaching nutrients into the water column of low nutrient water, your carbon and po4 remover will be there to colect these nutrients. It is an ongoing process that will continue till your live rock becomes clean. Dont worry about what the live rock is leaching out into your tank, as long as you are keeping up on your carbon and po4 removers.

The ball of cheato is great to have too. Especially with no skimmer. The cheato will also use up nutrients in the water. Dont get discouraged though if it doesnt outcompete the algea on your rocks though. I beleive the algea on your rocks are getting their food source from the rocks themselves, and not so much from the water column. If your cheato grows- it will let you know its consuming nutrients. If it doesnt grow- then great! Your tank husbandry is working, and there isnt enough to support the growth of your cheato.

When your algea disapears, your cheato isnt growing, and your rock stops shedding, you know you have acheived a clean healthy tank. After that, its continue basic tank husbandry and enjoy the beautiful veiw!

Dont expect to see any of the shedding or algea disapearance to hapen quickly. It takes a bit of time for this process to start.

during this time, your beneficial bateria will continue to do its job and stay alive and well. As the process continues your rock will be able to do its job more eficiantly, as it wont be clogged up with excess nutrients.

Basically its the same process as "cooking" your rock, but happens at a much slower rate and can be acomplished in an up and running reef tan

[Sir Patrick]

Your addition of an ro filter will be key in this process. Tap water will already be pretty nutrient rich (in most cases) and be counter productive of the process listed above.

The same process goes for live deep sand beds too. They can also become loaded with nutrients.

If you cant get your water cleaner than your rock, the nutrients will not be expelled/leached from the rock, and will be held inside the rock.

One more peice of advice- If you are looking for faster (relitively) results, you could always keep your tank running, and buy some new rocks. Go ahead and "cook" the new rocks, till you are satisfied, then replace all the old rock in your tank with the fresh clean "cooked" rock. Its an option.

[Sir Patrick]

And to get a bit more on topic of beneficial bacteria-

The bacterias will reproduce in your tank naturaly to keep up with the bioload, to an extent, in your tank. As you add tank inhabitants, and more amonia/nitrite is created, your bacteria population will grow. At times where things are staying constant, the bacteria populations will also remain constant.

The bacterias feed on amonia, nitrite, ect. and grow/reproduce to cover the demands in the tank and keep an equalibrium.

At times when things happen too fast, somtimes they are unable to keep up, such as too many fish added or death and decay in the tank, which will lead to spikes. These spikes will come down eventually, as the beneficial bacterias reproduce to be able to handle the load.

There is a point in all tanks though where too much is too much. A tank with small volume, or not enough live rock will have a much lower carrying capacity than a large tank with alot of rock. Once the carrying capacity of a tank is crossed, the bacterias population wont be able to keep up.

[MizTanks]

WOW!!! Pat you've done a wonderful thing here and in such a way that I now *fully* understand the true workings of LR~I've been using a turkey baster of late to help remove any built up detritus~for the first week every time I did this a cloud of *dust* would come off the rocks~today however was different~barely anything at all! I have also noticed a slowing in the amount of algae being produced~what is there looks pretty bad.
Thanks for the wonderful explanation! Is there any way we can *stickey* this somewhere? I'm sure many other newbs would benefit greatly from this topic.