Attn: Tara, The Pet Supply - Baraboo, WI

[Reef_Angel]

The first time I went into The Pet Supply in Baraboo, WI Tara, I offered to help you get your tanks in order the best way possible with what you were working with. I felt frustrated though because all you were worried about was what it might cost you and not the health and well being of the numerous fish that were dying and corals as well. Dakar and I thought we'd drop by to see if things were going any better for you since my last visit. To my shock the large clump of what were struggling "trumpet corals" looked so close to death, it looked possibe that they may be saved under the right conditions. I'm sorry to say you just don't have those conditions in your store and you admitted so yourself. I offered a rescue on a sickly polyp colony as well with the promise the I would bring back to you healthy corals if I could save them as I hate to see them just die. You admitted you knew they were going to die, but yet you would not let them be saved. We had a very hard time understanding your thought process there. Is it all about making money to the point that you'd rather see the coral die than try to save it with a guarantee that if I saved it I would bring healthy stock back to you? To us, we are strong advocates of Captive Reefing....keeping the reef alive and not letting it die. Your tank with all the anemones in it and the dead hammer coral you are leaving in there for all your copapods to crawl in and out of, serves no purpose if you are not using them as a food source for other aquatic life to benefit from being able to feed off them. Which brings me to the tank with all the bristle worms in it. Consolidate all the live rock and provide a good filtration system, establish proper lighting for that tank, and then designate one big tank similar to the one you are currently using as your display tank and use it as your coral tank. Yes, you can put selected fish in a tank with corals. Again, I would suggest you take out the dead plate coral out of the display because just by looking at it you can see that it is rotting which is causing bacteria. Get a cleaning crew in there! Make sure you are doing your water changes in that tank and testing for ammonia, phosphates, nitrates, nitrites, silicates, iodine, alkalinity, calcium etc. You have the tests on your shelves, run them.....they are important. Watch for evaporation! If you let you tanks evaporate down 3", can you imagine how that changes the salinity of the water? If you keep up with those water changes and tests, your fish won't die the minute they hit the water when you receive them from the shipper. I'm afraid to say, that is not the shippers fault. While we like to help you, and have offered our help.....twice in my case now only to be turned away for fear you may have to pay me something. Get out some good books on Salt Water Tanks and start reading, because with some of the things you are saying to your seasoned Reefers, you come off poorly and will loose business rapidly. Remember, we were trying to help you make a go of it, not only for yourself but for the local reefers that would like to be able to have some better options when it comes to LFS stores in Baraboo, WI.

[ereefic]

Hmmmm, wouldn't this post have been more appropriate via PM?

[Grandmaster_Toad]

I think we are all frusterated with these types of situations and have been in Angels shoes..
First Id like to say two things: I like and respect every CR member Ive met or had conversations with and I think it was great to see a LFS owner join. And 2nd I actually bought my tank from Barraboo Pet Supply as a special order. I was a big supporter of my LFS at one time.
Personally, I was the head aqautic specialist in a large LFS for 6 years and I know how tough it can be to tend to multiple tanks and other animals on the profit that is made off of fish and reptiles. It can be overly time consuming keeping everything at 100%. I did feel the benefits when i saw customers become freinds and actively promote my store and services. However on the flip side, I know how discusted and judgemental i can be when I walk into a LFS and see poor conditions and people who dont care.
What I tried to always keep in perspective is this.... every customer has an opinion. Some of those opinions are simpley uninformed craziness, and others are well researched genuine people trying to help. The key is to weed out the crazies from the knowledgable, and take some stock in their advice.
I think what we have here is a unique and excellent opportunity to really give honest feedback between a LFS and customers. Lets be carefull to not turn this into a LFS bashing forum, (Im sure that was not angels vision for this thread), but use this to give good constructive ideas on how we would like to see things realistically improve. I think if we share are ideas we can help make our LFS one of the "gems" in the industry.
You know.....the place that your spouse wants to hold your wallet and warns you about self controll when you walk in.....lol.

[dakar]

Well put GT, that was exactly the message intended, having the luxury of seeing all sides of it I guess my perspective gave me a definate advantage.

Everything for the common good, LFS bashing is extremely non-productive (even though warranted in some cases), give me a place where I can leave a paycheck behind happily without having to wait for the UPS guy...and I'm a happy camper

[Reef_Angel]

Thank you Dakar & GT! When you reach out and offer repetitive help to someone that is telling you how every shipment received results in numerous deaths not long after the stock gets added to her tanks, how can you not help but not want to help? Those here that have known Dakar & I since the site started being built, also know how I feel about my fish & my coral. They are all spoiled and they always will be. I've copied and pasted Dakar's reply to Tara's question that appeared on the board right after we were in her store. We were stunned after all the time we spent trying to help once again. She says she has guys coming in all the time giving her advice which I'm sure is great, but there is no change in the tanks at all. It's just so sad to see the last few corals that are there so close to death and her not willing to do a rescue unless we buy them at full price. Like I said in my first post, these corals were offered back in good health if I saved them. I wouldn't have gained anything except the feeling that these once beautiful creatures may have been saved.

[Reef_Angel]

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dakar
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Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:59 am Post subject:

After actually seeing the tank in question yesterday, lighting alone is not going to do it. The HOB filter with a passive carbon bag, though helping with circulation, is quite frankly is not going to cut it. There is no real means for nutrient export, the substrate alone cannot support the bio load. The addition of some live rock and a skimmer would improve water quality tremendously.

As a side note, the 4 anenomes (though of the same species) in that small a water column is likely not helping matters. Some sort of clean up crew in there to help remove detritus and stir up the substrate can only be helpful as well.
_________________
Every electronic component is shipped with smoke stored deep inside....
only a real genius can find a way to set it free.
Tank Size(s): 180g reef, 29G FOWLR
Hobby Experience: Now and always just a sponge.

[Reptoreef]

Constructive critisizm is an area in the grey when weighed out as good or bad. Personally, I am aware of just how important Angel's view of captive reefing is and since I do have the experience to perceive this subject from Angel's view, I see the positive points of her comments... Tara, I completely understand just how demanding it can be to add and upgrade while trying to also keep up with the retail demand and the costs of things. Ereefic, I also can understand your point as well. This is a great example of why we are here... to help one another to become more informed of not only the hobby of captive reefing, but also of the communication it takes to do so and share our experiences and opinions.

Repto

[Brad524]

I am new to this board and this is actually my first post, but I have done tons of research and have three years exp.


I go to this LFS often as there are only three around here
I was saddened to see the trumpets and others dying as well
but there was no way I'm paying that much for a near dead coral
I do think tara has the best of intensions but needs a few upgrades to increase health of ALL.

also size vs. price needs to be considered
a frag isn't worth 50+$ a small colony is

When we walk into an LFS and see poorly maintaned tanks, and dying live stock the result is customers see no care in the store or animals . And every one hears about it Who wants to pay 50-60$ for some thing thats almost dead when a frag from another reefer is well maintaned and larger.

on the flipside : If any one of us walk into a store and see well maitaned tanks and healthy thriving livestock, we are overjoyed and tell everyone we can (reefers are a tight nit group and word of either sort spreads FAST.

Tara ;

IMO if you spend a little on upgrades now it will pay off in the long run big time.
a few hundred $'s now will increase live stock survival rate , customer opinion , and
sales dramatically.

the live stock survival rate alone should make up for this in a short time.

USE your test kits and keep salinity regular
( I tested the water in a bag once and it was at 1.030 high nitrates , nitrites , phosphates , low calcium/alk .
there was only a single tiny mushroom polyp in it for 35 minutes)]

this may seem like more work and money then you wanted to hear but it's not that bad
once proper levels are achieved and stable they will be easier to maintain.

and if you increase quality of water and live stock you will get a boom in buisness
guaranteed!!

some people are testing you with certain questions looking for the proper response to asure them you care about thier tank as well as the animal.
(ex. will this yellow tang do ok in my 30 gallon?)

I do realize your restrictions here but if ya want a booming buisness, and loyal customers I would listen to the mods here as well as research else where .
the internet has more info than we all could possibly learn.
but be weary of uneducated answers and opinions



coming here was a step in the right direction , keep down this path and buisness will improve!!

Good Luck

Brad