lineage and names?

[jimsflies]

Green with red tips Euphyllia anchora for example. That would indicate a green hammer coral with red tip polyps. Not the "Tyree LE Bleeding Hulk Hammer." It even comes jam packed with EXTRA zooxanthellae, unlike any coral ever pulled out of the ocean. Do you see what I am saying Jim? Things have always had common names or trade names, but there was nothing wrong with the system before, why fix what isn't broken....?

To my knowledge at this present day there is not a dichotomous key for zoanthids. Making classification often times very tough. Zoanthus sp. and Palythoa sp. alike were called just that. Often times DNA testing is required to truly find out what type of Zoanthus species it is, as they can look the same to the naked eye. However, there is a huge difference between some species such as Zoanthus gigantus, and Zoanthus sociatus, even Zoanthus sp. and Palythoa sp.. I would be willing to bet money on the fact that a huge amount of folks who price gouge would not even be able to tell me the difference between a zoanthid and a palythoa.

My question was a legitmate one...Lets say we are talking on the phone...and want to discuss a particular zoanthid....how you would refer to those so we are both talking about the same thing? I'm guessing based on your reply, that you would call them a polyp with orange skirts? The problem is there are tons of polyps that have that description which look completely different. Without a photo or a name, how do you narrow it down? Using scientific names (Orange Zoanthus sp.) isn't goint to help either.

Although classification of zoanthids has not been top priority in the scientific world, people are working on trying to get it all figured out. It's not happening fast enough for some of the people in the aquarium trade, so they have taken it upon themselves to put their own name on a zoa or paly. You are not a scientist
There is going to be alot of angy people out there when their names get changed, once proper classification has taken priority.

Do you think the guys naming them are much less random when they come up with the name? Yeah the taxonomy is fairly objective, but the species name is just a name. Pomacentrus alleni for example....alleni is named after Dr. Gerald Allen...we should start a thread about how the evils of narcissism as it applies to naming fish!

Speaking of fish...they all have a name and a scientific name. When you go into a shop looking for a fish do you ask for a Amblyglyphidodon aureus? I bet you get a dumb look back if you do! Of course not you ask for a Yellow Damsel. So then, why is it not okay for a fish to have a common name and not a polyp? Has naming fish been debated as the evil and that people selling fish under a common name also considered profiteering?

One thing i forgot to mention above in my previous post is the fact that it does not cost a diver in a third world country any more to cut a piece of coral off a rock today than it did 20 years ago.

I disagree....more is being invested in bringing corals that have a higher resale value. It costs as much to deliver a brown coral to the local LFS from australia as it does a colorful one. A brown variation counts the same against quotas as a colorful one. Therefore, investing in education and equipment for the divers, helps assure that the box of corals can have the maximum value. There is no way you can tell me that the corals being sold today haven't on average become a lot nicer than the average coral seen in the hobby a few years ago.

Greedy people are to blame. Reefing was never and still is not ment to be a means to pay for your mortgage.......

What I see is 95% of the people in this industry are hobbyists. They hobbyists that are selling these corals so that they can continue to collect and help pay for their hobby. Sorry, I don't see a problem with this. It comes down to simple economics: supply and demand.

[Wy Renegade]

What I see is 95% of the people in this industry are hobbyists. They hobbyists that are selling these corals so that they can continue to collect and help pay for their hobby. Sorry, I don't see a problem with this. It comes down to simple economics: supply and demand.

While I agree with part of what you said Jim, I have to disagree on this one. I have a problem with somebody making $10 a polyp on something like Green Implosions. Thats not supply and demand - its greed and hype or taking advantage of those who don't know any better.

[MUCHO REEF]

While I agree with part of what you said Jim, I have to disagree on this one. I have a problem with somebody making $10 a polyp on something like Green Implosions. Thats not supply and demand - its greed and hype or taking advantage of those who don't know any better.

Thank you. I don't want everyone or anyone for that matter to agree with anything I say. I just want someone to "GET IT". Wy renegade, even if you don't agree with me or anything else I say on this topic, you "GET IT", and you just stated so above.

This taking advantage of newbies and those who are not informed or educated enough yet has to stop. That's all I'm saying.


Mucho Reef

[Sharkboy87]

Thank you. I don't want everyone or anyone for that matter to agree with anything I say. I just want someone to "GET IT". Wy renegade, even if you don't agree with me or anything else I say on this topic, you "GET IT", and you just stated so above.

This taking advantage of newbies and those who are not informed or educated enough yet has to stop. That's all I'm saying.


Mucho Reef

Agreed

[jimsflies]

Thank you. I don't want everyone or anyone for that matter to agree with anything I say. I just want someone to "GET IT". Wy renegade, even if you don't agree with me or anything else I say on this topic, you "GET IT", and you just stated so above.

This taking advantage of newbies and those who are not informed or educated enough yet has to stop. That's all I'm saying.


Mucho Reef

I am all about helping people who are new to the hobby that want to be more educated (that's why CR is here). But I think people need to man up and take more responsibilty for their own actions. (In reefing and life in general.)

There is a saying... a fool and his money are soon parted. If someone doesn't educate themselves about the market price of a given coral, what makes you think they will take the time to research proper care for it?

[jimsflies]

While I agree with part of what you said Jim, I have to disagree on this one. I have a problem with somebody making $10 a polyp on something like Green Implosions. Thats not supply and demand - its greed and hype or taking advantage of those who don't know any better.

And how many of them get sold at that price? At that price, the demand is low...why because they are common and the majority of people know it. So then what happens, the price gets lowered till it does sell.

[MUCHO REEF]

And how many of them get sold at that price? At that price, the demand is low...why because they are common and the majority of people know it. So then what happens, the price gets lowered till it does sell.

JIM, they sold all the time, everywhere and everyday at those lower prices. Do you remember how many I sold and shipped all over the country? Do you remember all the Give-a-way Trivia contest with tons of colorful zoas and palys I use to give away over on another site? Are you saying someone won't by something at a $ 1 per polyp, but will pay you $ 10 per polyp? No one goes to the market and says, "nope, can't give you $ 5 for the AJAX, but if you jack it up to $ 20, I'll buy it". How many reasons are there out there to justify these prices my friend? There was demand everywhere in 2005. Lack of demand didn't jack the prices up, REEFERS DID. It ....was.....the ......Reefers !!!!!!

[Sharkboy87]

REEFERS DID. It ....was.....the ......Reefers !!!!!!

It surely wasnt the divers, the transhippers, the wholesalers, the Local Fish Store's.... That may be the case now, but that was well after they came onto the forums and saw how much that zoa rock with 1000 polyps they were selling for $2.50 is selling for now.... $25 a polyp.

[jimsflies]

JIM, they sold all the time, everywhere and everyday at those lower prices. Do you remember how many I sold and shipped all over the country? Do you remember all the Give-a-way Trivia contest with tons of colorful zoas and palys I use to give away over on another site? Are you saying someone won't by something at a $ 1 per polyp, but will pay you $ 10 per polyp? No one goes to the market and says, "nope, can't give you $ 5 for the AJAX, but if you jack it up to $ 20, I'll buy it". How many reasons are there out there to justify these prices my friend? There was demand everywhere in 2005. Lack of demand didn't jack the prices up, REEFERS DID. It ....was.....the ......Reefers !!!!!!

In my world of economics lack of demand causes prices to fall. One of us has it backwards.

I'm confused because it sounds like we said the same thing about green implosions.....they sold all the time, everywhere and everyday at lower prices. I haven't priced shopped for them lately...are you guys now trying to say this now is the going price?

[jolson10450]

While I agree with part of what you said Jim, I have to disagree on this one. I have a problem with somebody making $10 a polyp on something like Green Implosions. Thats not supply and demand - its greed and hype or taking advantage of those who don't know any better.

i have a problem with that as well, but if you do not do the research on the piece and find out what their current value is... or you can simply make a post here and ask how much it is, then it is their own fault for making the bad purchase. i am the type to step in though and tell them "hey that price is way to high for those, i've seen them go for 1$ pp maybe you should shop around more" i am that guy and i admit it because i would except the same from someone else if i was ever in that situation. i've recently visited a store that is infested with red bugs and there was a guy debating on making a coral purchase so i told him about them, he walked out happier than a clam that he didn't buy anything because it would of infested his tank, he wouldn't even know to look for things like that if i didn't educate him for the 15 minutes i was talking to him and showing him the red bugs. It only feels right to me but like i said before, if they do not do the research themselves first and know what they are getting into then that is their own mistake. it never hurts to ask but for some reason people never do.