lineage and names?

[MUCHO REEF]

Mucho, The side of the argument that disagrees with your position has made some very valid points. These points have been corroborated with evidence. The decision to ignore these facts does not make them less true.

1. In an earlier post you wrote "I remember when people were throwing zoanthids away"

2. In this post you wrote "I truly hope all are around when prices drop back to a dollar or 2 per polyp. Just watch how many of those people who claim to be selling to preserve the reefs and little to no profits. They will begin to run from this hobby like OJ in a Bronco".

These 2 statements are very important because they corroborate what I and several others have been trying to communicate to you. When people were throwing zoas away they were not desirable. There was an abundant supply with little demand. With the increased variety of colorful zoanthids introduced to the market demand has increased. This is evidenced by people buying them and buying them at high prices. Not only have zoas become more desirable but the number of hobbyists has increased. This puts even more demand on the product.
In statement 2 you make another point that I have been trying to get across. If there is no profit there is no hobby. Because you disagree with this fact does not make it untrue.
3. In this post you make the statement "I'm just waiting to hear one common sense reason, just one to justify these prices"
You sir have justified them yourself in statement 1 and 2. Again, just because you disagree with something does not make it untrue. No matter how many times you repeat your disagreement doesn't change the facts. The rise in prices have much more to do with desirability than with names. The name is simply a way to communicate that we are talking about something desirable. The first polyp named was a desirable polyp hence someone felt there was a value in naming it so that they could talk about it with other reefers.

4. In this post you made this statement "Many corals , perfectly healthy corals have died as a result of these prices". Many, many corals have died as a result of this HOBBY. Do you really mean to argue that back in the "Good ol days" corals didn't die in tanks? The success rate of keeping corals has never been higher than it is now. If all the frags were dieing then prices would fall as fast as they do. The evidence is quite clear. Corals plummet in price very quickly because people grow them and the market becomes flooded.

Can I call you Bro? Cause I think it sounds cool as it is a part of your name

Yes sir, I did say that, and it was true. Nobody really wanted zoas, because they grew so fast and yes, they were very cheap. But Bro, this is what you're not getting, and I am not trying to sound condescending here. Bro, demand didn't increase because of new colors, DEMAND INCREASED BECAUSE OF DAH MAN !! SOMEONE GAVE THEM NAMES AND FALSE LABELS OF RARITY SUCH AS LIMITED EDITION. With all due respect, I was here, I was selling zoas and plays all over the counrty. I have shipped zoa frags to the 4 corners of this country and I can prove it at $ 15 a frag of 15 to 20 polyps of every color you can imagine. Everyone keeps saying new colors are the result of these prices. Bro, pardon my grammer, but it ain't true. I have pictures of some of the most stunning colors from years that pre date 2005. You and I both know that I never or should I say, seldom if ever show or share pictures of my tank or any corals that I own or have owned. I'm not into that. I personally know many of the reefers who started with these names.They weren't naming new stuff, they were naming the same corals that have been around since I got into this hobby. I WAS HERE Bro. No one can tell me otherwise.

It was only when every Tom, Dick and Wannabe saw that these corals were now like gold, that the interest went through the roof, thus demand followed. But it wasn't because of new colors or new anything. Who is spreading this, cause it's not true and it's very misleading. Bro, I mean, just how many excuses/reasons are there to justify these prices? Come on, we are all in this together, these prices are running people and newbies away. Lets put the hobby and the corals first again.

My friend, I'm glad we are talking BTW. No one has a problem with a business making a profit. No one has a problem with reefers recouping his/her investments and even making a few dollars. You, I and many others agree on this. We have a problem with a polyp which sold for $ 1 before.......then someone named it.......( get ready for this now )........called it rare........said it was a limited Edition..........Peter Skyree is the only one that has them..........and now the price is $30 to several hundred dollars for a single pencil size in diamter polyp. This is outright silly and a major problem. This is gouging, greed or whatever you want to call it.

If you guys want your names, fine, keep your names. Me, I'm a reefer, I don't need a name and I can grow them without a name. Why? Cause I'm not in it to sell or resale them, thus, the don't doesn't mean a thing to me. I grew thousands of them, and never knew a single name. I know an awful lot of collectors on a dozen sites who have posted tons of questions as Wy Renegade said ealier asking, "what is wrong with my corals", "Why are they dying", "why won't they grow", "somebody please help me save my Jimmie Crack Corns", "why won't they open today", "what's this slimmy stuff". Many of these people know every name in the book, but they can't keep their corals alive. They can tell you the lineage, but they keep crashing tanks. They can tell you what every single polyp is worth on the market, but they can't control the algae that's choking off their polyps. They take great super macro 1 to 3 pictures, but they don't know why their polyps are wilting". Now I ask you again, what is more important? The cart is being placed before the horse my friend.

As far as my statement on the premature mortality of many of these corals, I will say this. Yes, corals can die on anyone, but I would give them a better shot at longevity with an experienced reefer who places the corals first, over Junior Polyp Pimper who purchased his first tank Monday, and is now trying to grow corals in it on Friday for pure profit, cause the prom is Saturday.

I have explained this as simply as I know how in layman's terms. No matter how someone tries to spin this, maybe some of these other guys weren't here, but I was. New corals and new colors had absolutely nothing to do with these sky high price hikes. It's but another reason to justify these prices along with LE, RARE, what the market will bare, supply & demand, just released, only 3 from the ocean exist, yadda yadda yadda. These are all excuses being use along with.....well....we have a lot of new colors because of these prices. You think? Slap a 300 or 3,000 % increase on anything overnight and yes, you're gonna see more of it everywhere. Why? Cause everyone wants a piece of the pie, the cheese and the almighty dollar. Made mostly off of newbies who don't know the truth, those who have bought into these lies, or those who have to have the next newest thing so they too can make money. Not me my brother. Nothing yet has made any sense and not because I'm trying to be mean or outright stubborn. These justifying myths have to cease. Lets play fare and I can listen, but I can't go along with hype and fiction.

I respectfully have to disagree 100% my friend.

Mucho Reef