Help fish not eating, body get white stuff and color fading

[shlim944]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hi all, I've got a 50g tank up and running for about 2 months now. The tank has (getting overcrowded, I suspect) a Naso Tang, Clown Trigger, Bursa Trigger, Niger Trigger, a juvenile Emperor angel, blue faced angel, 4 clown fish and other misc small fishes.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Up till last week, all the fishes were happily eating, then suddenly, the Clown Trigger and Naso stopped eating (they used to be about the greediest fishes in the tank). The Clown Trigger started getting some white "sendiments" on the body and fins and started hidding plus fading body colour, the Bursa Trigger and Emperor started scratchingtheir bodies on the rocks (but these 2 are still eating well but the colours are slightly fading...). The rest of the fish (except the clowns and damsels) seem to be shy (hiding) and eating much less..#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have put in Oodimedik Coral antiseptic solution (from Prodac) in the tank for 2 days now, but so far, there has been no improvement, especially the Clown Trigger.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have checked the pH, SG, NO2, NO3, ammonia and the tank has a very little NO2 and ammonia. The NO3 is higher than it should be at about 20-30ppm. I did get an outbreak of white water 2 weeks ago, which was cured with a combination of UV light, water changes and reduction in feeding. I still do a water change (10-20%) every week.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Any ideas on what I should do to save these fishes, esp the Clown Trigger, I suspect it won't last through the week if it still does not eat.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks for any advice#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#SH (newbie)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[tigersax7]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#yieks....sounds bad ...the white sedements might be ich sometimes caled marine white spot...If you have a copy of the "Natural reef aquarium" there is a section on common marine illness on pages 253 to 255 that cover what you might have going on. The apearence of white dots on the one fish and the tendancy to srcratch on the Live rock is a good sign of ich a common parisitic infection which can be treated with copper medication. but be warned inverts WILL die if you atempt to use the medication in the main tank so it is imparitive that you isolate the sick fish imedatly (sp) this will aid in halting the spread of thedesies and prevent any other fish from getting it. but sadly there is a very good chance that the infected fish may die. I recomend imedate isolatoin (sp) and treatment of those fish, yourLFS should have a medication avalible. I had a ich out break when i was youger in a fresh water aquarium it wasnot pretty I lost about half the fish before the medication took hold so act quickly. hope this helps keepus posted, and good luck.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#tigersax7#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Reef_Angel]

BEFORE you treat your tank with any copper product, please read this!! If you have one fish that's going to be treated for ich, then you are going to have to treat all the fish. If you use copper medication to do this, then you will not be able to use that tank for anything but fish. Copper medication will kill any coral you may have, and once it's been in the tank, you can scrub it for days and not get the copper out of that tank. It will leach out into your tanks clean water, and it will do harm to your coral and your invertebrates. I would suggest using hyposalinity to treat all the fish....corals would have to be removed. It takes about 6 weeks, but it will insure that your fish & tank will be free of ich.

Hyposalinity is the lowering of the salinity to 1.10, and holding it there for 4 to 6 weeks in order to rid the system of parasites. Here's a link that will explain the process of doing this safely:

http://www.captivereefing.com/lexico...ty%20Treatment

There's no quick fix to ick orther parasites. You may have found this on them soon enough to have a successful treatment. By monitoring your water, and watchng their progress, you may just have the success that you're looking for. Good luck with all of them. You might want to think about a bigger tank when they're all better, or having 2 running and break up the batch of fish you have there. Always read up on what you buy first, and learn about each fish to insure they will last a long time in you tank without outgrowing your system so quickly. Hope this helps a bit! Keeping our fingers crossed for you!! .........Angel

[kmmahan]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think the parasite infection you have may be due toyour overcrowded corders-- I think when the fish get stressed they get sick and overrun with parasites (i.e. ich) -- 50 gallons is too small for that many fish-- I have a 55 gallon and there are so many different fish that I would love to have-- I think you can have like 5 . . . maybe 6 fish-- also I thinkmost of those fish need a larger size tank (except the clowns)-- the angel, tang, and all of those triggers really need to be in a 100 gallon tank- (70 gallon maybe).-- I only have 3 fish-- but I have mostly coral anyway . . . the fish I have are small-- GBM clown, lawnmower, and mandarin-- You seem to be right in the middle of a very difficult situation-- the parasites you seem to have go through all these different cycles and it's just ugly-- I have a UV sterilizer in my tank-- but I hope you come through it okay-- you probably won't be able to maintain a healthy tank with that many fish though-- It's easy for fish to get stressed in a home aquarium if the conditions aren't right-- they come from the ocean-- we try to mimic the conditions of their natural habitat on a smaller scale but it's pretty much impossible-- basically the fish have to just adapt to the environment we have provided for them ordie-- and many of them do die-- Sorry if I am bumming anybody out . . . Anyways-- my advice . . . stay on the forum-- you'll learn alot-- I know I did-- talk to alot of people and read alot of information-- this will probably have to be a learning experience because like I said, your in a difficult spot.Probably if it were me-- I would try and get rid of the fish that weren't sick--(if there are any) because if there not sick-- they may get sick-- and since you can't keep that many fish you have to get rid of some anyway-- The LFS will buy back fish . . . I would try to save as many as I could-- then probably sell some more back-- (or just giveaway)-- then I would figure out what type of fish my set up could handle -- then go from there . . . Good Luck!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[PhatBrdr427]

wel you can have a decent amount of fish in that big of a tank you just need the right amount of filteration. another thing... did you recently buy any new fish? That is always another way you can get ich. To prevent this, dont put any new specimens in the same tank... set up a quarantine tank and treat them in that before putting them in your main tank. Also get the right temperment balance between your fish. if you have a overly dominant fish you might want to try and get rid of them or figure something else out. good luck man, hope al works out well for you without any losses.

[PhatBrdr427]

oh also if you have any scaleless fish... dont use any type of copper product, it will kill them.

[Reef_Angel]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#EM#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#ff4040#ed_cl#

I would try and get rid of the fish that weren't sick--(if there are any) because if there not sick-- they may get sick-- and since you can't keep that many fish you have to get rid of some anyway-- The LFS will buy back fish . . . I would try to save as many as I could-- then probably sell some more back-- (or just giveaway)-- then I would figure out what type of fish my set up could handle...

#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/EM#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#EM#ed_cl##ed_op# FONT color=#ff4040#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/EM#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#One thing that is vitally important on this site is to give good advice. As an Administrator of this site, it is important to me that information passed along is accurate and the best advice possible. Research & suggest, but above all....make sure your advice will not harm anyone else. Yes, he may have to many fish, but the answer is not to get rid of them by selling seemingly healthy fish to an LFS or giving them away unless the people taking are fully aware that these fish have come from a sick tank. All of the fish in his tank need to be treated, cured and parasite free before selling them back to an unsuspecting LFS that will resell fish that are likely carrying the parasites. We complain when we get a sick fish from an LFS, but if everyone has this attitude about fixing their problems, then I can understand why we get "some" of our bad stock from our local stores and blame them for it. It's Reef Responsibility. You may have found a solution for your problem if you treat the fish you keep, but have infected many tanks just to clear out your problem, without fixing the true problem at hand. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There are different opinions on how to cure this problem, whether it be with natural cure such a hyposalinity or using a product off the shelf with copper in it. It's best to take the time to find out the best solution given your situation. A hospital tank is going to be the first necessary step regardless of the method you choose. Rid the fish of the disease first, and then read up on your fish to see what your tank can handle, keeping in mind the size they grow to be. After you do your research, choose the fish for your tank, and then look for homes for your healthy fish. Be honest to anyone you give or sell a fish to so that you don't harm their reef in the process of fixing and making your reef a safe one!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good Luck #ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl##ed_op#A name=""#ed_cl##ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#shlim944 #ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#with getting your fish healthy and your reef back to it's healthy state! Again, there is good advice here, but research the alternatives and find the one that will work the best in your situation! #ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[shlim944]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hi all, thanks for all the good advice. I do realise that the overcrowding probably has alot to do with state the tank is in. And yes, I did introduce some new fish in the tank and I do have some very aggressive fish - FEMALE maroon clown, an African clown and damsels.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well, I lost the clown trigger - I had moved it to a hospital tank but he was too far gone... saaad (was my favourite !).#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I continued with the Oomedik Coral solution and the good news is that there is improvement - the Naso has started to eat a little (but still only lettuce and nothing else... got to do something about this later), the emperor stopped scratching for a day but then started a little (much much less) when I stopped the medication, so I restarted the medication again ! The rest of the fish looks quite ok. Unfortunately I cannot catch the emperor out, he's just too fast so I treated all the fish together, probably good given some the advice above to eradicate all the parasites from all the fishes.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I've also increased the amount of bio materials in the filter tank dramatically - addeddouble theamount ofAqua clay and some BioHome. I am also thinking of putting in a denitrifyer to keep the Nitrate in check. Hopefully, after a month, the filter system will be able to cope with the amount of fish. Unfortunately, there is already too much fish, so the best I can do now is to try to improve the filtration system (and do water changes). Am also thinking to getting a larger filter tank 2.5 ft and higher, but am worried that this may cause more harm than good in the immediate term (re-cycle the tank ?).#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#BTW, scaleless fish cannot be treated with copper - does tangs and triggers be considered as scaleless ? If so, it was a good thing I did not use copper to treat them !#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks again for the advice#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Rdgs#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#shlim944#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[dakar]

Do you have access to a UV sterilizer? Though there use in a reef tank is still a hot debate. We snagged one after a good scare, actually quite a few months ago, and it's still inline and running with no ill effects, we'll likely leave it unless we start seeing anything bad happening that we can blame on it. But with a FO system they can't hurt that's for sure, may even help.

[Reef_Angel]

Since we (Dakar and I) are advocates of the "hyposalinity treatment" to rid a tank of parasites, I am curious about the product "Oomedik Coral Solution". What exactly is the product for? Is it a cure for ich/parasites that is safe to put in with your corals? Of course I see "coral" is in the name, and generally when something is named like that, it sounds like a coral treatment and not necessarily fish. Knowing that you used it and have gotten some good results, you've got my curiousity peeked about the solution you used. Parasites are the most frustrating problem when they suddenly appear, and all you want to do is make your fish feel better immediately. With hyposalinity, you hold your breath for the first 3 days, and if your fish are still swimming by then, you feel like you may have it licked. That's how it's been for us anyway. I hope you don't lose anymore of your fish! Keep hanging in there! :-)