Last day to add livestock is in 2 days. Contestants should post their livestock and budget by 4/30.
Last day to add livestock is in 2 days. Contestants should post their livestock and budget by 4/30.
ok i think i am a little confused on these rules, i thought that the value of the coral was based on what its "retail" value is not what you bought it for? i see some people buying like 3-4 colonies of zoas or sps and they are marked so cheap i thought they counted to their retail not what they paid for them at swaps... any info on clearing this up?
The rules state...Originally Posted by jolson10450
Spending Limit: The spending limit on corals is $400. Corals purchased from CR sponsors count half toward the spending limit. For example if you spend $100 from non-sponsors, you can spend another $600 from sponsors and will have spent the $400 limit. You must post a receipt with a picture of the stock to allow for others to see what you have spent. Receipts will be necessary to prove source of purchase for corals that are purchased from sponsors. If you are also participating in the grow out contest, you can put those in your nano and it will count $40 against your spending limit.
The section of the rules that provide estimated retail costs is listed as being for the following purposes...
"The following is a list of prices to help determine value of on hand corals or free corals obtained from other reefers.
I would interpret the above to mean the cost is that which is paid (and documented) whether purchased through a retailer or at a swap (hence the reason receipts are saved.)
I'm sure Jim will chime in with the final answer
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw
From earlier posts it seems it was agreed that if you got a receipt or equivalent (paper with coral, sellers name, signature and price) from a swap purchase the cost would be what you paid, not the price according to the price list. Waiting to see what Jimsflies says...
Last edited by Synergy; 04-30-2011 at 11:56 PM.
As I recall...or intended...the price of a coral purchased at a swap from another hobbyist would need to be figured according to the market price list on post #1 of this thread. If the coral was obtained at the swap from a sponsor, you were supposed to get some sort of receipt documenting the price and sponsor which would then only count as half toward your spending limit.
So,Justin is correct...it is based on market value (post #1) unless you purchased it from a store and have a receipt...then that value is used. And if the store is a sponsor only half of the amount spent is counted toward the spending limit.
Thanks Jim that is what i thought, private vendors such as swap hobbyists would have to be based on the list then not what you paid for it at the swap. Thanks for clarifying it. the receipt was only intended to show you bought something from a sponsor to make it count as half.
OK I don't think this was ever clarified and from the above posts, it would seem I was not the only one in this boat. Why is it that the rules state that you can only use the price if sold from a vendor and not from hobbiests? I think it's better for the hobby to get frags from hobbyist who have been captively propagating corals in their tank. Instead, you have to buy frags/colonies from vendors who are chop shops (Mr. Coral) to get good prices. Otherwise you have to use the list which is way high and varies from location to location around the US?
I just spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars stocking my nano tank for this contest. I have plenty of corals in my main tank that I could have used but didn't because the "retail value" listed in this thread is so far off from what I can purchase wild colonies chopped up into tiny little pieces for. So instead, I spent hundreds on new, mostly wild stuff (seems counter-productive) to try to compete with whatever everyone else was doing.
Now... to me at least, it seems the rules are changing. The day after all of the corals and price lists were due. So now it seems that stuff I have added are against these rules. With no time to change what I have added or update the price list, I don't see any choice but to drop out. I'm extremely bitter about this and I can't believe I have put so much time, effort, heart, and money into this contest. If I'm getting any of this wrong, please correct me.
First, let me say I don't have a dog in this race as the purchases I made for the Nano contest all came from CR sponsors/retailers.
In reading through the rules and comments made in the Nano build thread - I believe this does represent a last minute change to the rules everyone has been operating under. I would argue against this change of the rules; namely,
- No distinction or separate treatment for purchases made at a Frag swap with documentation were included in the rules. Doing so now past the end-stocking date of the contest unfairly treats those that made purchases from swaps (including from vendors) and could potentially eliminate participants that followed the published rules exactly.
- The retail pricing, as published states it is to be used to "help determine value of on hand corals or free corals obtained from other reefers" No reference is made to it's use for any other purpose.
- This decision would represent a "slippery slope" with participants having to define what makes a retailer (storefront, business license...) that would likely cause additional conflicts.
- I would argue accepting a receipt from the time of of purchase establishes retail value better than a years old static price list - Especially in light of many retailers offering ~$10 Frags. This becomes especially more difficult for distressed corals.
Lastly, I had intended this response as a PM to Jim, but as a result of Rosebuds post and the possibility of her dropping form the contest - I felt a public response to be appropriate. Acknowledging that the outcome could negatively impact multiple contestants at the very last minute of a very time consuming and costly process - I believe this issue should have been handled as a PM rather that public post, especially since the complainant is both a moderator and participant and appears to also made swap purchases that could be argued were below "retail" costs, yet used receipts for contest cost calculations.
If determined this change is desired, I believe it would be more appropriate to put it in place for future contests, not apply retroactively for an almost complete contest.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw
it is a double edged sword though guys because i could have literally put tons of stuff in my tank but didn't because i properly followed the rules to begin with. if i was able to put them in my tank for the price i paid for things at swaps i would have been able to put at least 25% more stock into my tank in its prime and could of just removed the corals that were showing stress and added new ones from the swaps in the tank for cheap. so while some may think it is hurting them now, it actually hurt others before by because we initially thought we weren't allowed to do that because those were the rules. if anything was unclear how come no one asked to clarify it? that is why i posted my questions in the thread just to be clear on the rules.
I mean i hate to be the bearer of bad news but i feel it was something people overlooked and i did not realize it until just last night otherwise i would of said something sooner. this is why i decided to do an acan tank rather than a higher end z's and p's tank because their retail value was so high i would only get a few polyps in the tank and that is it.
I think CalmSeasQuest stated the concerns very eloquently.
In response to your post Jolson, the reason I didn't post questions is because I thought the rules were clear. I went back through the thread and people added corals from members at fragswaps as far back as February. It's very interesting to me that the rules were never questioned in any of the the threads (several people have corals listed from hobbyists purchased at swaps) until the day after the final lists are due. Since the clarification changes the rules that so many seem to have thought meant something else, it seems the rules are being changed after the fact.
I think your comment about following the rules to begin with is very out of place. I thought I was following the rules to the T. You thought you were following the rules to a T. Everyone else thought that they were following the rules. It seems that the fragswap rule was not clearly defined and is causing all of this drama now. I could say the same to you. Since the rule wasn't clearly defined and I thought it meant something else, you didn't follow the rules. How about we just not point fingers at anyone and discuss this civilly? I think we can all agree that the rules were not clearly defined which lead to needing clarification after the fact.
Going back through the threads, it seems that there are only 3 people who would be left in the contest if this rule stands. And besides that it seems the rules are being changed after the fact, it does open the flood gates, as CalmSeasQuest stated, to who is considered a hobbyist and who is a vendor. It really is a slippery slope.
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