Or you can get two frags of the same zoas but with different number of polyps and put them in the same system in close proximity to each other. Give them a set amount of time to grow and see which does better.
CR Member
Or you can get two frags of the same zoas but with different number of polyps and put them in the same system in close proximity to each other. Give them a set amount of time to grow and see which does better.
"It happens, and as long as the clowns out there keep paying top dollar, they will stay top dollar. Just a way of life, imagine how much cheaper a Tahoe or Yukon would cost if the word 'bling' was never invented..."
It does show that not all small frags die or do poorly as seems to be a held belief by some in this thread.Originally Posted by mallorieGgator
---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------
I agree this would be a good experiment, particularly if it could be pulled off with the same polyp type with several reefers.
CR Member
Now thats an interesting idea. If you did that 20-100 times you would see a trend. But, if it showed a larger frag (which lets face it, ALL of us would rather have) grew faster, would that really be evidence that it's immoral or ridiculous to do smaller frags? Even in the grow out contest, how many tanks were really up to par? If a bunch of frags died in some tanks, do we know those tanks were even suitable to house a 20 polyp frag? Perhaps some of those tanks are just mismanaged algae factories and they lose corals all the time, regardless of frag size.
The only way to tell is to have several, very high end, noteworthy tanks, do several frags, of several morphs and actually get some real data on what happens. Even then, if it was proven that large frags have higher survivability than small ones, I question whether or not you could call a small fragger immoral or unethical.
Moderator
I guess the real question here is "What does this thread hope to accomplish?" Is there a point? The OP titled this thread "Hot and Heavy Topic......" which already implies an intent to stir controversy and divide the community in two separate camps. After all this subject has been hammered upon countless times on countless forums including this one. Is the intent simply to rehash the same ol' same ol' debate? Is the actual intent of the thread to simply rally against fragging? I posted a picture of 196 frags grown from singles polyps and it was ignored. Is this not evidence that single polyp frags can be and often are very successful or are we really just trying to divide the fraggers from the non-fraggers? Like it or not fragging has become an integral part of this hobby and of the industry as a whole. The practice is here to stay. Is the purpose of this thread simply to lament the fact that the "good ol' days" of assembling a reef with colonies has been replaced by growing a reef from frags? In my view a conversation is started in an effort to explore an idea and possibly expand/exchange knowledge or even develop a new idea. However considering the subject here is a very tired and trampled one and the OP chose a title that clearly demonstrates that she knows this having participated in the conversation before. It goes the same every time. The anti fragging side paints a picture that coral sellers/vendors are greedy and don't care about the animals or that nobody grows colonies anymore. That non-fraggers somehow love corals more. The fraggers or those who buy frags argue the opposite. So being that we have established two points of view is there anything new to be added?
There was a time when I thought controversial threads that got a lot of action might be good for CR because they boost activity and involvement. However CR in my view is a pretty friendly community and I have come to realize that controversial subjects only serve to highlight disagreement and possibly create ill will among the community. If there is nothing new to be learned from this subject I would much rather concentrate on the things we have in common rather than the things we disagree about.
Exactly.
Even taking a cross section of different tanks would give us good data. If both the frag and colony died in a given system, it would be fairly obvious that system wouldn't be able to sustain that coral regardless of size.The only way to tell is to have several, very high end, noteworthy tanks, do several frags, of several morphs and actually get some real data on what happens. Even then, if it was proven that large frags have higher survivability than small ones, I question whether or not you could call a small fragger immoral or unethical.
The whole immoral and unethical (aka "treating these animals like crap") terminology that is implied (and posted) is something I am concerned about ( @rmalone ...I'm not at all talking about you with this as I know this isn't how you feel.). This issue polarizes the community and eventually does more damage than good. Casting shadows at those that are actively trading and and collecting corals at prices higher than you want to spend is unproductive and doesn't help anyone be more successful. It makes members afraid to post for fear of being chastised for a purchase or ridiculed for selling a frag. I feel the issue has the potential to stunt CR's growth...reefing communities with a healthy coral trade are ones that are successful.
CR Member
Why can't you guys agree to disagree and remain civil....where is all of this heat coming from, it's not the end of the world. I wish we had this much involvement in the other threads in the zoa forum or to at least start helping to create new ones.
Mucho
PS. Touch gloves and talk to each other and not at. It really works.....PLEASE
Please stop fragging your frags.......you'll eventually do more damage than good. Just let them grow.
CR Member
I didn't start this thread to **** anyone off. I started it so we can see each other's train of thoughts on certain subjects. It wasn't made to start huge controversies or to rally against fragging. This thread isn't against fragging. I just wanted to see why people do what they do. It's a Hot and Heavy Topic because it is controversial but if you all can't be civil to one another then I won't do anymore of these topics and you can lose one more interesting topic in this zoa forum. This is meant to make you think, it certainly has changed my point of view on a few things. I would hope that people aren't so hard-headed that you believe what you think is the only way. I know people buy small frags (I DO!) and I know some people buy colonies. I wanted to know why people don't grow stuff out and why they are happy to keep their corals the size of a frag plug. Hope this can get everyone back on topic. If you want to do a study or experiment, please start a new thread. Thanks!
Mallorie Gaughran- U.F. Animal Bio Undergrad
55 Gallon SPS and Zoanthid Dominant Tank with a few LPS and NPS here and there.
CR Member
I know you didn't Mallorie. I know exactly where you're coming from and thanks for the clarity.
Mooch
Please stop fragging your frags.......you'll eventually do more damage than good. Just let them grow.
CR Member
A little warm perhaps but civil in my estimation. I would agree that it's dangerous to have these discussions particularly when we know they will just end with two sides, and I agree it's a dead end subject. But I think it does serve the purpose of making the people on both sides of the argument dig deep and defend their position, thats not always bad (but like I said dangerous).
If were going to have a "down and dirty" discussion every week, and if it's going to relate to how we feel about reefing and the world i.e "ethics" then we should expect disagreement. Personally I don't mind, at times discussions like this are fun and enlightening, and if I don't have the stomach for it, well I don't have to get involved in the discussion.
This discussion went pretty well really, I have seen similar threads head to the gutter posthaste.
CR Member
I don't see why people wouldn't like talking about their sides of the subjects. I thought we could all learn something from this by seeing each other's point of views. Again, I'd like to reiterate that I didn't start this to say fragging is bad or that keeping one colony to yourself is greedy. I didn't start this to irritate or "stir the pot". People disagree, it's normal not dangerous. If everyone got along and had the same points of view, this would be a boring place. I titled this Hot and Heavy because it's a thread weekly that is hot for discussion and a heavy topic. Also, I thought it would catch people's eye and they would post their point of view. I'm going to stick up for what I believe in and if it irritate's people, that's your issue because it shouldn't. It should make you want to post your point of view but not attack. I feel like if you have to aggressively defend your point of view and not scientifically (let's face it, nothing is scientific as of yet, just observations by different people) or with common sense, then you are insecure about what you believe in.
So, would everyone please tell me this: Why do you keep small frags or small colonies and not let your frags grow into large colonies? Why would you frag a small frag? What is your thoughts when you frag a small frag? If you do it is it because you want to share? Make your money back? Like the look? Think it makes your coral grow faster? Let's get this back on track so we can see each other's points of view. I wanted to post on this smaller forum bc I believe people are nicer here vs. a huge forum where things can get out of hand very quickly.
Mallorie Gaughran- U.F. Animal Bio Undergrad
55 Gallon SPS and Zoanthid Dominant Tank with a few LPS and NPS here and there.
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